How the National Association of Realtors Is Reinventing Its Future
Glennda Baker: You will never convince me that there is a better investment tool to build generational wealth than real estate.
Nykia Wright: I would agree. I've read over 600 business books, not because I needed to, but because I actually enjoy understanding business.
Glennda Baker: I've been here 34 years and I've got to tell you, you are the single most persuasive person that I have ever had the opportunity to talk to that would convince me that you are moving in the right direction. I actually believe that you are going to take us to the promised land. I think that you are exactly what we needed.
Glennda Baker: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Glennda Baker, I'm a real estate agent in Atlanta, Georgia, and welcome to Glennda's Guru. On this episode, sit down and grasp tightly, ladies and gentlemen, because I have got Nykia Wright, the CEO of the National Association of Realtors, live here with me right this very second in Austin, Texas. Y'all, I cannot wait to unpack this episode. Nykia, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Nykia Wright: Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Glennda Baker: Now, I... I said live, but I just want to make sure that you know that we are not like actually live at this very second.
Nykia Wright: Yes.
Glennda Baker: Okay. But like we're live and in person together, and normally my podcasts are not like that.
Nykia Wright: Well, great. So happy to be sort of the first guinea pig for them.
Glennda Baker: You are not ever a guinea pig. Y'all, I got to tell you, I had the opportunity to hear Nykia on stage here at HousingWire at the Gathering, and one of the things that struck me probably first was you don't come from like an inside the real estate industry background.
Nykia Wright: And thank goodness for that!
Glennda Baker: There's a blessing and there's a curse, yes. I do... you know what, I... I'm going to... I'm going to disagree with you right off the bat, because I had the opportunity to hear you speak, and what I loved about what you had to say was you don't have like that baggage, that residue. You don't. And I got to be honest with you, you know, bad news doesn't get better with time. You know, I could sit here and make this like the flower and the sparkle and the glitter, but you walked into something that wasn't in perfect condition. You walked into something that probably wasn't even in great condition.
Nykia Wright: That is absolutely right. Um, but having been a turnaround CEO before, I sort of understood the core tenants of a turnaround. But make no mistake, um, it was Thousand Watt that gave us this moniker, and I truly believe that it is the largest, uh, real estate turnaround in history.
Glennda Baker: I would... I would probably double down on that. I think that under your leadership, we're actually beginning to see true turnaround. And you know, it's difficult to turn the Titanic around.
Nykia Wright: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
Glennda Baker: And when you talk about... like I mean, you are... people would say you're the cornerstone. The National Association of Realtors is the cornerstone of the real estate industry. It really is the foundation of the real estate industry.
Nykia Wright: I would agree with that.
Glennda Baker: And you had... you walked into some issues. You didn't walk in with the baggage of kind of knowing the inside of the industry, and what have you been able to, you know, from the time that you started to right now, what has been your biggest turnaround?
Nykia Wright: Wow. So, all of the elements of the business have been sort of part of the turnaround. Uh, when I was turning around the Chicago Sun-Times in Chicago, we were sort of bringing that Jeff Bezos's edict of always having a beginner's mind. And so, being able to keep that as long as I can while I'm in the seat-because eventually I become a veteran; my uncle, my mentor, used to tell me that once you are in a place for over a year, it's yours, you're sort of in there and you understand it-you are marrying the aspects of the business with your beginner's mind that is continuing to become a veteran. So, we try to keep our beginner's mind as long as we can, and even bringing in new talent each time that we do that, we get another sort of bite at the apple of keeping that beginner's mind to help us turn the organization around. And I said it was a blessing and a curse because, um, I agree with your sentiment, but the curse part is if you are not willing to listen and understand where the industry came from, you will have no idea how to manage it. There are some aspects of the industry that are core to the foundation, core to the ecosystem, and when you have sort of an innovative mindset, it's very important that you pay homage to what the organization has done over 108 years before I got there. The organization over 108 years developed a very strong advocacy, has a very strong innovation arm in Second Century Ventures, has a very strong research arm... Realtors Property Resource. Those are authoritative assets that people around the country are using every single day. And so, we wanted to make sure that we were not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, a lot needed to be done, but certainly this association and what it's done over the last 108 years, uh, cannot be overstated, I don't think.
Glennda Baker: Now, you got to keep in mind, I've been selling real estate since Jesus was a baby. When I started in real estate, I didn't... I barely graduated from high school, I didn't go to college, so I didn't have anything to put on a resume. And I joined the local board, the state board, the national board. So I had Georgia Association, I had Atlanta Association, I had National Association, Women's Council. I got really involved. I was president of RPAC, I was president of professional standards. I was even Young Realtor of the Year a thousand years ago. And I think that a lot of real... a lot of realtors don't understand the advocacy part. They just don't get it. They don't. They think that you're up there in some ivory tower. They don't understand the good that you do for our industry. Talk to me a little bit about how you've been able to really get that message out to your members about, "Hey, we're not just here to collect money, we're really here to make it stronger for you."
Nykia Wright: Absolutely. So, we cannot overstate the impact that the advocacy engine has on the ecosystem: the local level, the state level, and the National Association of Realtors. When we were doing focus groups to inform our strategic plan, it was interesting how some people interpreted the word "advocacy." It wasn't the majority of people, but we did see pockets of the country where they did not synonymize advocacy with lobbying. They simply thought that we were just sending letters to Congress and hoping for the best. They had no idea that we have a building that we own that is a block away from the Capitol where we are out there every single day-our advocacy unit in DC-talking to congressmen and women, informing the White House, informing HUD, informing the Mortgage Bankers Association, and all of those things to make sure that we protect, preserve, and advance homeownership for all Americans. What I like about the advocacy engine, too, is Realtors like you get an opportunity to invest intentionally in their business, right? And so when you talked about what the college and all of those other things... regardless of what profession you're in in the United States, I do believe that it is our duty, uh, to ourselves and to whatever client base we have to be as informed as possible. Your ability to volunteer at those levels, to be known for what you do in Atlanta, to continue to sort of invest in the association, is not only what makes the association rich, but it is what helps homeowners across the country who have no idea what we're doing on their behalf, right? Homeowners across the country use this asset, um, as... as part of this sort of central tenant of the capitalistic model. Everyone's not invested in a 401(k), right? But people do have the opportunity to move up and move around society, and this model, uh, via homeownership...
Glennda Baker: Well, you will never convince me that there is a better investment tool to build generational wealth than real estate.
Nykia Wright: I would agree.
Glennda Baker: And... and I, you know, I sell houses to regular people, everyday people, and one thing that I heard you talk about was affordability and first-time homebuyers. And I really think, especially in my area of... of the country, uh, we have definitely struggled with large corporations coming in and making those homes, um, rentals. And is that turning us into a renter nation? Do you think that the National Association of Realtors will lobby for some sort of reform or change for that?
Nykia Wright: Absolutely. And just in the spirit of full disclosure, we're doing that now. And the reason that I agree with you as it relates to that housing asset is I can go buy a stock on the stock market and I can look at a computer sort of output platform every day and see what's happening with that. But via homeownership, not only is your asset appreciating, but you're living in it, you're creating dreams in it, and you are... you are growing along with that asset-whether it's your family, whether it's the city by the lake, by the ocean-all of those things, you get to enjoy the asset as it appreciates as a part of your life. And I would say that you can't really do that with any other assets. And so that's one of the reasons why I agree that it's... that it's so important. Dreams are made there. Um, when we also think about what Realtors do across the country, one of those sort of underappreciated things is the way that you all help design neighborhoods. And it's not from an overextension of power; it really is... you all are meeting people where they are, you're understanding what their dreams and aspirations are in that moment, and you are helping them pick the best place possible. Communities are where dreams are made, communities are where families are born, and communities are how we sort of move around society. And so when we think about a bank just coming in with a transaction and leaving, there is a bit of danger in what are you creating, right? What fabric are you ripping apart from a neighbor depending on a neighbor? If this is just sort of a blind transaction where there isn't any human interaction, that is sort of one side of the argument that people are presenting. The other side of that, of course, is that people are looking to say, "Well, this is sort of my investment, this is how I'm looking to..." because I understand how the asset appreciates. And so our advocacy engine is doing everything that they can to articulate to the people in DC and around the country of what's happening, because it's not just Atlanta-Atlanta's sort of the hotbed and foundation-but it's also Detroit, it's also Seattle, and a couple of other cities around the country.
Glennda Baker: You know, my tagline has always been, "We provide the backdrop, you create the memories of your life in the homes that I sell you." Wow. And... and I can't tell you how instrumental being a Realtor in business... because I've been a Realtor since day one, like always. And it... it's something that I've worn proudly. Um, I remember there was a portion of my career where I wasn't with a company that required you to have membership as a Realtor, and I thought, "Oh, I don't need to be a Realtor, I don't need to do that." And I have to tell you, it was probably one of the biggest mistakes of my life, not taking membership in that little segment. So I've seen it from both sides. And the professionalism and the standards and the ethics that Realtors work by, I think that a lot of people don't realize that we have a code of ethics, that we have a standard of performance. And I... I mean, I wish there was a minimum standard of performance. I wish we could do that, because I got to tell you, um, I think that you're more proficient in your skill in your craft the more that you do it. That's why I want there to be a minimum standard. I think that it just levels us all up. So you're looking at doing minimum standards. What are the other key initiatives that... that you feel like that... because I know you've done focus groups, I know that you've got ambassadors, I know that really one of the key things that you have done is to reach out and get feedback. Yes. You have not turned a deaf ear, and of all the things that I could dance down the street naked to, that would be it. Because I feel like the association is listening.
Nykia Wright: Oh, we have to. I think... I think we had sort of outlived our welcome of not listening, if I could just, uh, say it as as kindly as I could. Listening, we are not in the... we're not inventing anything; we're supporting an ecosystem. We are supporting partners who, in exchange for the monies that they give us, are expecting us to deploy that capital in the best way possible on their behalf. And so I... I think that it's incredible that people are sort of part of the association. One of the things that you haven't sort of asked, but I'll just mention it anyway, it really is our responsibility to make sure that people understand the difference between a Realtor and a real estate agent. At the end of the day, I'm the National Association of Realtors; I'm responsible for the people who are sort of paying us monies in exchange for products and services, and those are Realtors. I do believe that agents get an opportunity to have a free-rider perspective as it relates to advocacy, because when we are thinking about protecting, preserving, and advancing homeownership for all Americans, they get to be part of that. But when we're talking about understanding what a Realtor is, we've even done some recent, um, focus groups, and it... it's very interesting how people define... it's sort of also frightening how people look and define a real estate agent versus a Realtor. My responsibility is to make sure that people understand that code of ethics, those... those practice standards, uh, the ability to understand and have a bit more uniformity to the extent that we can across the nation, so that people understand the transparency and the x's and o's, uh, that are in common across the nation to be able to buy a piece of real estate in Florida versus buying a piece of real estate in Washington. There are pour tenants there, and people are able to do that. And so we are proud of what the Realtors are bringing to the association. It is our job to continue to educate, uh, society on that difference, uh, protect that trademark by any means necessary. Uh, sometimes I'm on, um, an airplane and I'm looking at the closed caption and I see, uh, a movie or something just botching the word Realtor and what it means, and I'm... I'm texting my legal team to say, "Hey, this particular movie, this particular streaming service is using that wrong. Let's make sure that we are continuing to not only educate consumers, but educate companies and educate, uh, Hollywood and all of the sort of ecosystem where people are talking about Realtors," making sure that we are promoting them in the best and most prominent light.
Glennda Baker: You know, um, I do a lot of social media, and I think that one of the things that makes my head spin around and snot fly out of my nose is when I see a real estate agent trading value and visibility for vanity and virality. And when I talk to real estate agents about how to implement video into their business and brand strategy, I really hammer home: you are talking about where someone lives. You are helping someone with what is usually their largest single asset. Treat it with respect. And I've really been very honed in on relationship, and I think that how you deal with relationships is how you honor them, yes. And I would ask that agents honor their relationship with the association, that you realize the value that it brings to you, and there isn't any amount of vanity or virality that... that is worth giving up the honor of the name of Realtor.
Nykia Wright: I would agree with that. No rebuttal.
Glennda Baker: Of course you would. Yes, yes. You had no idea what you were walking into.
Nykia Wright: I certainly did, none. But I'm... I'm still standing, so there's that.
Glennda Baker: Are you enjoying it?
Nykia Wright: I am. I am. But I... I enjoy anything that I sort of put my, uh, talent, treasure, and... and time to. I've just... as part of, you know, growing up being a Georgia peach, uh, in the South, we have, you know, no offense to other regions, but we have a work ethic, oh yeah. Um, we have a... we have a commitment, and I'm... I've sort of promised myself that I would be a good steward of whatever I was over. And so it is very important to me day in and day out to show up as a responsible steward to the 1.4 million members that we serve, but even in a tangential way to the agents that we don't serve, but whose ecosystem we are still trying to preserve, to the millions of consumers who are looking at homeownership, to the CEOs of brokerage companies, to the CEOs of MLSs, and the entire ecosystem, to make sure that we preserve this very expensive asset.
Glennda Baker: You talked a little bit about, uh, that you had a... a team look at the rules, rules. And... and you know, I... I think that a lot of times where many organizations make a mistake is they never ever adapt or change with the times. Yes. And... and when I heard you say that, number one, I didn't know that you guys had done that. So let's put that out some more, because I want people to know that you really are tuned in, you really do... you really are taking the necessary steps, the hard steps, to have somebody look at the organization and say, "You really miss... you're missing the mark. Yes. This is no longer... like this doesn't even make sense anymore." So talk to me a little bit about having... looking at the old guard or the way that things were done, and... and where do you start? Are you excited? Are you overwhelmed? Does it seem like a lot?
Nykia Wright: So let's just start back with why did we even decide to do that. Many people that know me know that I love to read. I've read over 600 business books, not because I needed to, but because I actually enjoy understanding business. Many of those books just, um, give me a... a different spin on the same topic, but it's nice to sort of see it written in a different way. Uh, one book, though, there's only one book that I've read like three times, and the name of that book is called Why Smart Executives Fail, and it was written by a business school professor of mine at Dartmouth. And I've read it three times, and there are sort of 10 core elements of why smart executives fail. They have to do with hubris, they have to do with, um, not managing the market properly, they have to do with not listening to customers. Everything that NAR was going through, we sort of hit all 10 of the marks. And so because of that, we knew that our... our turnaround was not going to be in the middle; we had to go all the way down to the molecular level of the organization and build that thing back up. And it starts with sort of who... why are we in this ecosystem? What is the role that we play today? We might not necessarily play that tomorrow, but whatever role we play today, we need to be the best possible stewards of it. And so going all the way down... let's start with the rules. Why? Well, we just were hit with two very big antitrust lawsuits. Okay, so let's go to the source of the antitrust issues, and that it was born of that was our ability to go and, uh, partner with a top, um, antitrust law firm in DC, looking at our rules with fresh eyes. Not just MLS rules-I know that there's, um, sort of a rumor that it's only MLS-every single rule, every single policy that we have put forth, right? So really clearing away the underbrush. Were there rules that were just put on top of each other, and some of them are competing? Let's get rid of those and create a path of clarity. Were there rules that look like, in... in a few years, just based upon where the... the winds of the antitrust world are going, are they going to blow over into these? If so, we need to honor these, look at these in a red, yellow, green format: red is a risk, yellow possibly a risk, green seems to be okay. And so looking at that from a very simplified, color-coded way and to begin chipping away at getting this ecosystem, getting Realtors like you, businesses, um, like yours out of the crosshairs of antitrust territory, but also making sure that the rules meet the moment. Uh, the biggest mistake that a lot of companies make is they were successful yesterday and they rested on their laurels. As quickly as this industry is moving, as... as quickly as people are picking their strategic spots around the country, the association, if it is to continue to be base camp, if it is to continue to be that foundational piece, or in some cases the epicenter of the transaction or a core pillar, then we must be relevant. And in order to stay relevant, you know, and sometimes they say you got to stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Okay, well, we're staying ready so that we don't have to get ready as it relates to looking at those rules and... and showing up for you all in ways that help you get to your next transaction without that cloud of "Is this antitrust? Is this going to sort of be the lion over the hill that the association is not looking at?" So that was one of our first proof points to really show how serious we were about getting us out of that... that, uh, terrible sort of situation.
Glennda Baker: If you had the opportunity to... because the majority of my listeners for Glennda's Guru are real estate agents, people in the real estate industry, if you had the opportunity to say one thing to them that you haven't already said, is there one... one thing that I haven't asked you that you absolutely want everybody to know?
Nykia Wright: Who you thought NAR was and how NAR showed up in the past is very different from where we are today and very different from where we are going. And so I would ask people to, uh, lean into the association, give it an opportunity, understand a bit more about what we're doing on advocacy on everyone's behalf, and understanding what we are doing to help protect, preserve, and advance homeownership, but also protect, preserve, and advance their... their... their occupation.
Glennda Baker: I've got to tell you, we've never met before, uh, they gave me an outline, obviously I didn't follow it. I'm an old dog, I've been here 34 years, and I've got to tell you, you are the single most persuasive person that I have ever had the opportunity to talk to that would convince me that you are moving in the right direction.
Nykia Wright: That's incredible. I appreciate that.
Glennda Baker: And I don't say that lightly, because I don't need to... I don't need to bullsh*t you. I'll be quite honest with you. I don't... I... but I will tell you, I heard you speak on stage, I had the opportunity to sit down with you right now, and I... I actually believe-and I don't know if it's a sales job-but I actually believe that you are going to take us to the promised land. I think that you are exactly what we needed, and I am... I... I am so excited about the future. And... and I'll tell you, I have been complacent, I've been kind of sitting back, kind of waiting to see what happened, kind of, "How's this going to shake out? Is it really going to be relevant? Is this something from the 1950s that a bunch of good old boys put together, you know, to keep the real estate industry under control?" And I've got to tell you, I am happy as a pig in a puddle.
Nykia Wright: Incredible. Thank you. Thank you so much for sitting down with me. I know that you are being pulled in a thousand different directions, I know that your time is very valuable, and for you to have had the opportunity to sit down with me and just speak from your heart, I am absolutely honored and touched.
Glennda Baker: So honor is mine. Thank you so much. Thank you, Nykia. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Glennda Baker, I'm a real estate agent in Atlanta, Georgia, and I just had one of the best conversations I have ever had here on Glennda's Guru with Nykia Wright, the CEO of the National Association of Realtors. And ladies and gentlemen, I am telling you right now, buckle up, buttercup, because we have got a bright future ahead of us. See ya!