Agents Are Using Social Media Wrong - Here’s Why | Chris Smith
Chris Smith: The biggest misconception about social media is that you need to play it safe. Realtors are still just reporting the news, but they're doing it in a world where no one cares about the news. They want your opinion about the media. It doesn't really matter if you've been doing it; it matters that you start.
Glennda Baker: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Glennda Baker. I'm a real estate agent in Atlanta, Georgia. And today on this episode of Glennda's Guru, you are not going to believe who I have here. It is Chris Smith! Y'all, I have been such a fan girl of Chris Smith before he was my friend. I got to tell you, and I'm going to tell you this: sit down and buckle up. You want to talk about somebody who comes with industry knowledge? This man comes with industry knowledge that is not only the big view, but also the agent view. I love how he is such an advocate for real estate agents. But I want to tell you this story: so, oh, my stars and stripes, I want to say it was like 2018, maybe 2017, Chris, I had the opportunity to meet you for the first time, and it was from afar. You were at a dinner that I was at at Agent 2021 in Miami that Gary Vee put on. You had on black jeans, black t-shirt, red shoes, and, um, and I was just in awe, because obviously I knew who you were. You had no idea that I even lived on the planet. And I had actually been trying to work with the company that you had co-founded, Curator, at the time, and there was no room in Atlanta for me. And I was devastated, because I was thinking to myself, "If I'm going to work with somebody, I'm going to work with this guy, Chris Smith, because he is amazing." You have, for years and years and years, been number one what I would call an industry guru. Number two, you have had the vantage point of many different seats. But ladies and gentlemen, let me welcome Chris Smith to Glennda's Guru.
Chris Smith: Thank you. Thank you. You know what, it was like Jesus: there was no room in the inn, but it didn't mean that you weren't special, Glennda. I love that, I love that. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. And that Gary Vee event was epic. I mean, that was so cool. And you know, it was in Miami Stadium. You know, obviously everything Gary does is, is world class. And he had, I think, Sir was there, and, um, gosh, he had some really talented people. I got to meet D-Roc, you know, his videographer, and we had a suite there. So yeah, it's great to see you and honored to work with you. And as far as my vantage point, you know, my vantage point and, and you know, a lot of times they'll say, "Oh, coaches are, you know, failed realtors." You know, I've never been a realtor. I've never tried to be a realtor. I don't ever want to be a realtor. I think it's a tough gig, especially like once you become successful. And for me, I came from the tech side. So I worked for Quicken Loans, you know, doing phone sales. I worked for Realtor.com when they were the number one portal. I worked with Homes.com on a nationwide tour and a book that we did. I have worked with Dotloop. I worked at Inman. You know, I have always been on the tech side, but I'm really on the consumer side, because as you know, people know what they want. And so when I see marketing, branding, copy, videos, like it just is instant for me to realize, like, that's great, or that's not great. And we're in an industry that's not great in many cases. But I think that's a blessing. You know, do you really want everyone to be Glennda Baker? You'd be tough to make a name for yourself.
Glennda Baker: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I gotta tell you, your social media is on fire.
Chris Smith: Thank you.
Glennda Baker: I mean, I will tell you, I went back and looked at, um, things that I had shared on my stories. Do you realize that I share your content more than any other one person?
Chris Smith: Thank you. I appreciate that. And that's what, you know, that's what I'm kind of in it for, is the sort of just traction. I'm not... I don't monetize most of my stuff. I mean, Instagram sends me a few bucks per month, but not even worth cashing the check. But you know, what I say, Glenda, is a lot like you. I think we're kindred spirits, is that we're willing to say what most people aren't, but we're saying what they're thinking. And so I had this kind of epiphany that, like, agents won't say what I say or what you say, but they'll share what we say. They will. They'll stamp it, they'll plus-one it, but they won't say it word for word the way that we will. But I just think they're so appreciative that there's like people that are willing to kind of stick up for them, because they get beat up a lot. You know, here's action item number one: go to Google and type in "My realtor is..." and then see what Google autofills and thinks you're about to finish that sentence as. And it says: "lazy," "not responsive," "not doing your job," "not selling my house." So the industry perception is like way down here. But you know, because you're in the industry, this industry has some of the most amazing people in the world. This is a... you know what, Tom Ferry told me one time, he said, "Chris, quit trying to go outside of real estate. It's a trillion-dollar industry. It's the biggest industry there is, and you're so caught up on, like, going above that." He's like, "This is it, man. This is the biggest big pond, you know, this is the ocean." And so, yeah, it's just, you know, when I meet a great realtor-and I've worked with great realtors on my own transactions-they earn every penny of their commission and then some. But then I go online and look at Reddit and do these, you know, searches, and it... it just not the same experience for everybody. So it's a small group of us that really care that we do.
Glennda Baker: Yeah. And you know, I always say that the best agent is highly undervalued, and the worst agent is highly overpaid.
Chris Smith: Yeah, that's exactly right. So true.
Glennda Baker: Well, I have the opportunity to work with you on, um, my newsletter, my email newsletter, and I will tell you, it has really, um, it has... it has hit it out of the park for me. Um, and you and your team... I mean, you know, my three favorite words in the English language are "done for you," and, um, and and it really is "done for you." Now, it is, um, you run that under a brand called Known Local, correct?
Chris Smith: Known Local, yep.
Glennda Baker: And, um, it is email newsletter and now YouTube, correct?
Chris Smith: Yeah, we're helping people with their YouTube channels. And you know, you're not an easy client-you're an easy client to work with, but you're a hard client to work for, because you have such a unique, vibrant personality. Like, we don't have any other newsletters that start off with, "Hey y'all," you know? We don't talk about super sweet tea in anybody else's newsletter but yours. And some of the early feedback that you sent me from your list, people replying, they was: "This is so you, you know, this is Linda Baker storytelling style," you know? And that is really what we do, is like, we want to represent you, but if... if you're willing to share with the audience-you don't have to... where was your email list before we started working together?
Glennda Baker: Oh, don't... I don't even want to talk about it. I mean, I will tell... it was a disaster. It was a complete and total disaster. It was zero. I mean, it was... it was literally... I mean, we started an Excel spreadsheet. It was an Excel spreadsheet. We started with nothing. And literally, you guys, number one, we have a huge open rate. We have... I have great feedback. I think I sent you like... like one day, I sent you like 12 texts like, "Oh, my gosh, look, look!" And so I mean, people are opening it. They're responding. They're answering the questions. They're conversation starters. It's just amazing.
Chris Smith: Well, and your open rate is 60%, and that's after almost a full year. But the first email we ever sent for you was 65%. And the what I want people to be excited about that: that's world class. You know, that like in the email world, you can't even email 10 of your relatives and get 65% of them to open it, right? So what I want people to understand is two things: number one, I know why you're not sending. You're not sending because you don't want to send crap to the people that added the most, right? It isn't that you don't know what tools to use. It isn't that. It's that you don't have enough time to put the thought into writing something awesome. And when you're sending emails to leads, you barely care what they said. But when it's your past client, your SOI, like you... you have to be really careful. But number two, people should be excited about the upside of the fact that it doesn't really matter if you've been doing it; it matters that you start, because you've been in the business a while. And I think, you know, you had a thousand good emails or something like that. And like the fact that people know you, like you, and trust you, that is the reason your open rate is so high. It has a little bit to do with our clever subject line and the preview text and the time of day, but the number one impact on open rate is the sender. And it's when they see Glennda Baker, they want to open it. But it's not even just you, Glennda. We worked with this guy in Michigan named Ron Zuko a long time ago. He got an 80% open rate on his first email that he ever sent in his whole career. I said, "Ron, how did that happen?" "Well, people like me." And that's it. So if you're watching this, you know, action item number one is if you've built a great business and if people like you, but you haven't been doing content, email, videos, you absolutely need to start, because they did not forget about you; you forgot about them.
Glennda Baker: Yeah. And you know, I mean, that's one thing that's amazing and and you... you guys really did a great job of capturing me, capturing the way I talk, capturing the way that I communicate, and you have really come up with amazing content. And as much as I hate to say this, um, I guess it was maybe three months ago, two or three months ago, um, you sent me a text message and you said, "Hey, you're a little bit delayed in responding with your approval. Are you okay if we just send out your newsletter? Do you really need to approve it?" And I was like, "Everything is approved. Go ahead and send forever." Yeah. And I was...
Chris Smith: The biggest compliment we can get.
Glennda Baker: Well, because that's how much I trust you. That's how much I trust the content that you're coming up with. It's how much I trust the writing that you're doing for me. And so I am... and you're really looking at my videos. You're looking at what I'm talking about. You're looking at my content that I'm putting out. And you're really coming up with the newsletter, and you're doing an amazing job. So I would say I love it, thank you. Now, I... I do have to tell you, I'm a little bit worked up with you.
Chris Smith: Okay. What did I do?
Glennda Baker: Um, well, you have another product called Beacon.
Chris Smith: Yes.
Glennda Baker: And I'm a little bit sad that I was not like, "Hey, Glennda, we love you so much. We want you to be like our beta tester. We want you to be the one who jumps in and does this." I had to find out this word on the curb. What the heck? I feel like I'm cheating on you. I feel like I'm cheating on you with Shannon Gillette, because she's... I know. We call her the next Glennda Baker, by the way. So, you know, there's... I love it, Shannon is amazing. She's wonderful. She really is.
Chris Smith: So, when Jimmy and I worked together at Curator, you know, when you... when you run a business-and I know this is not your first business being a realtor-you learn so much that you can take to the next business. And so what we were looking at was like, man, you know, you've got Boomtown, Commissions Inc., Guilopo, Curator. You've got all these marketing platforms that are built to generate leads, and then you can go to any room, in any event in the industry, and say, uh, "Raise your hand if most of your business comes from your past clients and your sphere and referrals," and every hand goes up. So then we started looking like, who's investing in those folks? Like, what... what are the investments being made? And there are some, don't get me wrong. People do handwritten notes, people do past client parties, but on the tech side, about the most people do for their past clients is put them on a Homebot, you know, put them on some kind of drip campaign that shows them what their home's worth every month. Meanwhile, they check their Zestimate four times in between getting it anyway. So we thought, what can we do to improve the experience of working with a realtor that makes them more referable, that gets them more listings, not more leads? You know, nobody wants leads, Glennda. They want listings. They want deals. They want clients. So we started looking at forums and started doing a bunch of searches on what are the biggest problems in the industry. And the number one problem is twofold: it's a... it's a twofold problem that's related. Number one, sellers feel like they're left in the dark and they don't know what's happening while their home's on the market. And a couple years ago, it didn't really matter-getting multiple offers right away, who cares? But now time on market's up, expireds are up, withdrawn listings are up, price reductions are up. And so communication is king in this industry, not content. Content's a nice-to-have. Communication-you'd be a millionaire just by being great at that with no content. You know, a lot of people, Glennda, that don't put out any content, and they got a lot of money from being good at being a real estate agent. So, problem number one: sellers are frustrated. Problem number two: agents are working hard and no one knows that they are, right? And so they're putting in all this work. And you'd be amazed that, like, the most common update that agents send to their seller is: "No showings. No offers." That they... they reduce what they're doing down to this little tiny thing. Meanwhile, they're marketing the listing, they're emailing their list, they're putting it on the portals, they're looking at the comps, they're putting in the MLS, doing the photo shoot, getting the video shot, posting it on their TikTok-like, you guys do so much that doesn't get seen. So it's... it's a twofold mission statement: we want to let sellers know what's happening, and we want to help agents get the credit for the hard work they put in. So, we had over a 100red agents send us their seller updates. There's three most common seller updates: number one, a plain text email that takes forever to write, because you got to go log into, like, 10 different things to put the stuff in there; number two, a phone call, which neither person wants. Now, you... you might want to do it because you got nothing else, but those calls are not fun. And then number three was nothing, and... or some type of custom solution that they hacked together. So like, there's some really sharp agents-and this kind of goes back to Shannon: she was using a tool called HighNote. Okay, HighNote is an off-the-shelf tool. You can use it for a million things. Obviously, people know about Canva, some of these different tools. So some really smart agents were building their own reports. If you do that, it took on average 60 to 90 minutes per... per listing per week. So we work with a lady named Meredith Fogle. Her son, CJ, is her transaction coordinator. He does her listing stuff. He... and she doesn't even have that many listings, but she's got, you know, 10 or 15. His week consisted of all day Monday and half a day Tuesday doing seller reports. It was... it's just really time-consuming, and so it ends up feeling like a necessary evil. So the quick pitch on Beacon is: it's a better update that takes a fraction of the time, and sellers love it. And the biggest, coolest thing that's been happening is that sellers are not stupid. They can see the math. And this is actually something that somebody gave us during the trial phase. They said, "I don't have enough time to update people on their own home; I definitely don't have enough time to update them on all the comps, too." Like, comps at an appointment is... is comparable; comps after the appointment is competition. And people do care about the house down the street. It's kind of like there. So what's happening is when you see that the two homes that are the most like yours both lowered their price and you're now the overpriced one, you're a little bit quicker to actually suggest a price reduction, much less push back on it. So it's been a lot of fun. It's a 7-day free trial: buildyourbeacon.com. And I promise you, I will get you set up, Linda. We will get you in Beacon ASAP.
Glennda Baker: Well, I hope so. You know, I... I am that agent that I hate the seller update for a multitude of reasons. Number one, if I haven't sold their house, I feel like I've disappointed them. Number... number two, I've got to, like, well, how many views do I have on Zillow, and how many saves do I have on Zillow, and why isn't my home selling, and how much is the house down the street, and you know, why did the house down the street go under contract before my house? I mean, it's just... it is absolutely brutal. And then you have the seller, the seller that thinks it's your fault, that no matter what you've done-number one, you haven't told them about every email, every conversation, every showing, every open house, every conversation at the open house, every video, every social media listing. And that's the thing, is like you're right, we don't tell them all the stuff that's going on, because number one, we're doing it as fast as we can do it to get it out. It's so funny, somebody said to me the other day, they were like... they were like, "Do you think you could put my house on social media? Do you think that's a good idea?" And I'm thinking to myself, "Do you even have any idea? Have you not even looked at my Instagram? Like, your video has 64,000 views, right?" And they have no idea, because I haven't even shared it with them, because I just assume that everybody looks at my Instagram.
Chris Smith: That's how I feel too, yeah.
Glennda Baker: No, but I mean, it's just so... I think that this is... I think I can't wait to... to see what it is. I can't wait to get in, I can't wait to use it. Um, I think it's going to be, uh, absolutely a game changer for me and my business, so I'm excited about that. But... but let's kind of talk a little bit, because Chris, you know, believe it or not, as... as big of a fan as I am of yours, a lot of your social media is, um, let's call it chippy, snippy. You... you get not only real with consumers, you get real with agents, and... and you get real with, you know, companies like Zillow. How does that shake out for you? Like, like... like what... what's the purpose of it? Like, sha... I mean, come on, you run a tech business that services the real estate industry. Like, just be nice to everybody. You don't need to be chippy, right?
Chris Smith: Well, I don't need to be... well, I should say, I don't have to be, but I do need to be, because if I'm not, I'm not being myself. I'm a very opinionated, honest person. I... I don't pull punches. So I... I... it's like when Gary Vee says, like, "You can't ask me not to cuss at the keynote," it's just, you know, it just kind of comes with it. And if you don't want me, that's fine. So, as you know, sometimes you have to kind of smack people to get them to listen to you, right? Not in a domestic violence type of way, but like, sometimes you got to shake them up a little bit, and you got to... and you got to wake them up, you know? And so my vibe is snarky. You know, you said "snippy" and some of the other things. It is, but it's because that's what cuts through the noise. See, the biggest misconception about social media is that you need to play it safe. Your whole explosion onto the scene is because you were extremely opinionated, right? So people don't... here's the way I would explain it: when we were growing up, the news was the news. Well, now the news is not the news; it's people's opinion about the news. Put on any channel. It doesn't matter if you watch Fox or CNN. It doesn't matter if you watch MSNBC or CNBC-whatever you watch, there's no longer news. There's the opinion of the news. This ain't Walter Cronkite and Tom Brokaw just reporting the news. So the disconnect is that realtors are still just reporting the news, and but they're doing it in a world where no one cares about the news. They want your opinion about the news. So when I say, uh, this girl on Twitter this morning-this comes to mind-she said, "Hey, if... if rates ever get back down to 3%, I'm going to buy a house and I'm going to lock it in. I am not going to make that mistake again." And so I said, "Well, here's what's going to happen in the reality: if rates go back down, competition goes up, prices go up, availability goes down, and PS, you can refinance to 3% if that ever happens, but you can't get the house that you want for less than it'll be right now." And so I think it's really just, like, people really do appreciate honesty. Like, I've been able to work with people like Austin Allison, Tom, Jimmy... like I... I've met with Spencer from Zillow. Like, I've noticed Brad Inman, you know. Brad Inman's a tough dude, Glennda. He's not an easy guy to work with. But what I've noticed is for some reason, and even people like yourself, like Phil Jones, like the people that are the highest up, they actually appreciate the criticism the most, as long as it's constructive criticism, versus people that are insecure, they can't stand constructive criticism. Now, I don't like criticism for the sake of it, and I'm not a negative person. So if my snarkiness comes off as a critique, it comes from a good place. So that's why I'm okay doing it. Zillow has had issues with me for 15 years. But you know what's so funny? I got on a call with Spencer. I said, "Hey, man, I know a lot of stuff happened back when I was at Inman." This is when, you know, Anywhere Real Estate was taking their listings off Zillow. This is when everybody was going to, you know, stop putting it on Zillow-the hashtag syndication was S-I-ndication, like it was a sin to syndicate, right? And now we're still having that conversation, by the way, with things like, what, Compass Exclusives? And so, anyway, it all... it all just kind of is cyclical. Well, I got on a call with Spencer, and I wanted to pick his brain. He's one of the smartest people in the industry ever. He started Expedia. He started Hotwire. His business partner, Rich Barton, started Glassdoor. These are some of the smartest people in the world. Pacaso, his new startup with Austin, is the fastest company to ever get a billion-dollar valuation. So, while I might critique some of the stuff they do, I'm not going to, like, not see the forest through the trees. So I... I get on this call, and I was so nervous to do this call, because I'm thinking, "I can't believe he even took the call." The only... the only way I scheduled the call is he had a startup called Intro, and Intro you can book calls with famous people that are business... that... so I... and the rich people that do Intro, the money you give goes to the charity of their choice. So I paid like a thousand bucks to do a 30-minute call with him, and he couldn't say no because it went through their platform. So, the whole time, I'm so nervous. I'm like, "Listen, man..." Because when they bought Dotloop, I quit. You know, as soon as they bought Dotloop, I'm like, "I didn't sign up to work for Zillow, I'm out of here. Exit stage right." And so, anyway, so I have all this in my head. I go into the call with them. I get on the call with them. I said, "Hey, Spencer, like I know I caused you some stress in the past, and I'm sorry. Like, I... I hope we can bury the hatchet." He's like, "What are you talking about?" I'm like, "Well, so, Glenda, these things were a huge deal for me." I was barely on the freaking radar. He goes, "Chris, I'm going to tell you right now, we're not burying the hatchet, because there's no hatchet to bury. What's up?" It was that quick. And I was just like, "Man, I'm over here thinking I'm a, you know, David and Goliath, I'm putting a chink in their armor." He barely knew my damn name. So, that... that's what I like about people that are successful, is like they're so busy innovating, executing, enjoying doing... so that... I mean, I have consumers... I mean, I get DMs, people saying I should kill myself because I'm sticking up for 6% commission for realtors. Like, that ain't my issue; that's that guy's issue, you know? And... and I don't clap back. I don't get snarky back. That's one thing I hope you'll see, is people come in and will... they're not dragging me, they're dragging the industry I'm in and they're dragging the people that I love. And I let them. And you know what I do? I go to Facebook-action item, I want everybody to go find some of the most common and popular threads. They can go to your TikTok. They can go to my Instagram, my Facebook page, go to Reddit-and I go to all the comments and I start at the bottom and I copy them to the top, because it goes faster than if you copy from the top down. I have no idea why it does that, but I go to the bottom, I copy them all, and I say, "Hey, Claude, can you look at all these comments and give me some ideas for some more content to create based on the hot buttons, you know, that were in there?" And it gives you like such clear direction as to why they feel the way they feel. You could have a content strategy for a year off one thread like that. So, yeah, you got to have thick skin. Um, but I love it. I... I just enjoy it. Like, my personal brand is my hobby. I don't have hobbies. I don't golf. I used to play poker, I don't play poker. I used to smoke weed, I don't smoke weed. I used to drink, I don't drink. Like, I don't have a lot of vices. I like watching sports, and I like working on my personal brand. So for me, it's fun. And like the battle and the snar... like it makes it more fun.
Glennda Baker: I love it. Do you love basketball?
Chris Smith: I do, yeah. I played in high school. I actually was... I saw the Bulls chair behind you.
Glennda Baker: Yeah.
Chris Smith: That's actually from Michael Jordan's, uh, old Chicago Stadium. That was a chair, that's this chair he sat in on the bench. My wife got that for me for my 40th birthday. I have almost every, you know, possible style of Jordan. Uh, right behind me is the Flu Game, where he's, you know, crouching down. And, yeah, I grew up playing basketball. I was really good. I used to say I was the second best player on the team, but I was the second best white player on the team. And there were only two white players on my team. There was 12 of us: two white guys, 10 Black guys. And so I just rode the bench, but I would give everybody a ride home after practice, and so they loved me. And, you know, it was one of the best experiences of my life. But I realized through that, like, you have to have talent, not just passion. You know, I love basketball, I put the time in, I put the effort in, I made varsity, I overachieved, I'm not going to be in the NBA. I can't even touch the rim.
Glennda Baker: Probably not. That's probably not your thing. Let me ask you a question: when were you at Dotloop?
Chris Smith: I was at Dotloop fairly early on. So Dotloop, when they first came on my radar, it was glitz and glam. So I was at, like, R4, one of these conferences, Coldwell Banker conference, I don't remember. And they had a DeLorean in their booth. The actual DeLorean from Back to the Future in their booth. And you know, Austin's like the best-looking human being of all time, his brother Alex is like this gorgeous-looking supermodel. And so I met those guys, and they were like so down-to-earth, but the perception of them versus the reality of them was really misaligned. So when I got to know Austin, I started hearing his backstory, and I found out, like, oh, he went to jail for selling drugs. Yeah, I never heard him say that on stage at Inman. He just comes across as like a pompous, rich kid. And so I... I love their mission, and we created a brand together called People Work, and it's how people and businesses can work better together. We wrote a book together. That was my first book. Gary Vee wrote the forward to People Work. It's probably my best book. It's the most evergreen, for sure. And so I got connected to them, and... and it was right when I was leaving Inman. And they said, "Hey, come work for us." And I said, "I... I got to do my own thing, you know, I want to start my own company." They said, "Okay, we'll give you a base and we'll give you benefits. You can work one day a week." I was like, "Okay, I'll do that." And they gave me, jeez, 2013, 2012. And so we wrote the book. We did a Kickstarter campaign, because I'm always trying new stuff. We raised $73,000 on Kickstarter in three days. And then I went on a nationwide tour spreading the word about People Work. And when Zillow bought Dotloop about five years later for $108 million, they came in, and they did an all hands meeting. And the first thing they said is, "We were attracted to the People Work message." And I was like, "Cool, my job here's done." So that was kind of why I departed. And Dotloop lives on and thousands of transactions happen through there. But what they recognized was that DocuSign... think about it, if I... if you were my sister and I said, "Hey, I'm going to do a company where people click to sign real estate documents," you'd be like, "Chris, DocuSign, they're already pretty well known. It's like the one tool in real estate that you don't have to do training classes for. Like, it's the one thing people have actually figured out." Well, what Austin understood was that clicking to sign was, you know, innovation number one, but there's so much back and forth that you needed to kind of collaborate on the document in real time. So it's just a little bit of a change. And DocuSign is worth billions of dollars. Dotloop was not, but it would have been if he'd have kept going. And 108 million is not bad, Glenna. That's a pretty good seven-year run, you know?
Glennda Baker: What? It's not bad at all. I started using, um... I met Austin and Alex at a... at a tech conference here in Atlanta, in Gwinnett County, the Gwinnett County Real Estate Technology Fair. And, uh, that was in February of 2014, and I started using Dotloop, and, uh, I think I'm like member number 341 or something like that. And, um, and and true to... it's the... it is the easiest document management system. What I really pride myself on is I think that I am the beta tester for Zillow, because I was the first person in Atlanta to use Dotloop, I was the first person in Atlanta to use ShowingTime. Uh, so, and they bought both of those companies. So all is well, yeah.
Chris Smith: Yeah. So I think Traction, they're going to scoop it up, you know, because they're one of the few companies that can. But they... they make smart acquisitions. Oh, yeah. And you know, you know, we... I... I mentioned to you, you know, I don't have a love-hate relationship with Zillow; I have a hate relationship with Zillow. And... and it... and you know, it's just everybody knows that I throw shade at them, even them. Uh, I'm probably a gnat in the ointment. They... they probably don't even know that I'm alive. Uh, but I will tell you, um, you know, I don't begrudge anybody a business model. And I think, and... and and I... and I pride myself on recognizing, uh, people who create amazing business models and how can I implement their business model into my business or how can I leverage their business model into my business? And I think that, um, that is why I... I love following you. I love watching what you're doing. I feel like you are always on the cutting edge of our industry with whatever technology that you get into. I love, uh, the books that you write. You wrote, um, you know, which is kind of strange to me, um, you wrote a book with Phil Jones, or worked on a book with Phil Jones, and it's so funny, because you know, Phil Jones is... is the first name on it, and then I think that you have to actually click more to see your name. Is that correct?
Chris Smith: That is correct, yeah. Jimmy made sure his was second and mine was third. Yeah. And then you also did The Conversion Code, correct?
Chris Smith: Yeah, The Conversion Code is my baby.
Glennda Baker: And which is actually for real estate agents. The book with Phil is ridiculously viral. I mean, people are buying that book right now while we're doing this recording. It... it's unbelievable, the legs on that book. So what I did is Phil basically said, "Hey, I want to do it with you guys. I like you guys a lot. Here's, you know, the word doc of my original title. You guys layer in the real estate, you know, specific use cases." We did a bunch of workshops with really smart realtors to kind of extract common, critical, and difficult conversations. But, yeah, I love writing books. The Conversion Code is used at Johns Hopkins, which is crazy. I got to teach at NYU. But even now, you know, if you think about there's... there's two editions, uh... the head of the marketing department at Johns Hopkins emailed me and said, "Hey, we use your book in our marketing school." And I was like, "Well, that's good to know, but it's five years old. If you update it, we'll keep using it." And I was like, "Okay, I'll update it, like done." But the... the amount that changed from version one to version two was crazy, because as an example, Reels, TikTok, Shorts, Stories-none of it existed. They... they weren't even a thing. Twitter was still Twitter, and AI was nowhere in the vernacular of marketing professionals. And people ask me what's the biggest difference: the first book was about the boiler room. It was about capturing leads, converting leads, like clicks, conversions, calls, right? And then when I went to write the second one, I'm like, man, consumers are winning the battle when it comes to, you know, you go to a website and it says, "Hey, can we cookie you?" No, no, you can't. You can't add cookies. Sorry. You go to an app, "Hey, can we track you?" No. You get a call that says, "Uh, this is spam. Do you want to answer it?" No, I'm good. You know, you get a text, "Reply STOP to quit getting these." So, I started seeing this, like, consumer protection becoming a really big topic. So what I figured out was that while I learned The Conversion Code in the boiler room doing the equivalent of direct response marketing for Dredge-call the lead, quick, call them often-I never actually did that for myself, because I from day one have done inbound content marketing on the back of my personal brand. So when I wrote the second version, I said, "You know what? Let's quit figuring out how to get people to answer the phone, and let's figure out how to get the phone ringing." That was the big difference. And I bet you're not calling a hundred people, you know, but I bet 100 people are calling you. So, that is really the big change, was like it was just so night and day between the old way and the new way. And clearly, the new way is a lot more fun, too.
Glennda Baker: When did you release, um, your new Conversion Code?
Chris Smith: 2021. So, even that one's four years old now-2022, somewhere in there. And it... I don't mention AI. It was before Traction, PT. It was before Jasper and Perplexity. And so, now, I'm like, gosh, I wouldn't have written it. I would have waited and written it with AI. There'd be prompts throughout it, you know? But the reality is, uh, I'll never write another version. I'm... I'm not going to write another, you know, book on practical marketing and tech advice, because it gets outdated too quickly, have to update it every few years. And I... I just think writing a book about AI would be one of the worst mistakes someone could make, because it would be irrelevant overnight.
Glennda Baker: Yeah, absolutely. How are you using AI in your business?
Chris Smith: Every possible way. Uh, I have been able to scale the content and the quality of the content that I'm putting out. So, you mentioned, you know, you see my stuff on Instagram. Well, that's because I now use Claude. I have a Claude project. I have custom GPTs and ChatGPT that help me with my newsletters. And I'm always trying and testing and learning new things. Like, I'm crazy bullish on Higgsfield, which no one's using: Higgsfield.ai. Higgsfield allows me to use Nano Banana Pro in an unlimited capacity. It also has Sora. It also has Google V3. It also has every image and video model all-in-one interface. So, I'm not really using Higgsfield. Higgsfield is the wrapper that has all of those tools inside of it, and... and I love it. And, but the... the thing I would tell people about AI is, like, the biggest thing it does is it eliminates the excuse that you don't know what to post, because the ideas are flowing if you ask it the right questions. But I... I'll tell you what's happening now, like bleeding edge as of this recording: what is the next big thing? So, I just started using this tool called Victor-Vic... Victor.ai. AI. And I'm sure you're hearing, Glennda, about AI agents and autonomous agents and open call, right? Like, there's a lot of buzzwords out there in the blogger-sphere. Well, these new tools, they... they do the work for you. So, like a good one everybody can add right now is Claude for Chrome. Okay, so everybody knows about Claude. A lot of people know about Claude. What Claude for Chrome does is it's in your... it's in your Google Chrome, and I can go to your TikTok account on my computer, and I can open up Claude for Chrome, and I can say, "Hey, analyze Glennda's TikTok account and explain what makes her best videos perform best, and then give me 10 hooks that I can use in my next 10 videos so that my videos will perform better, too." And... and Claude will do all of that. And then I'll go to, uh, Claude, and I'll say, "Hey, go find me the most popular tweets right now hating on realtors." And it'll go find them. I'll say, "Okay, now, how can we turn that into a visual and give me suggestions, but also give me prompts for Nano Banana Pro to turn it into a visual?" So, like, between Claude for Chrome and this new tool, Victor-it's in Slack. This is what's crazy, it's in Slack. So, I'm chatting with Victor in Slack, and it's... the first thing, I said, "Analyze my Instagram. Tell me what I should do better." Done. I changed my bio today. I said, "Hey, I have broadcast channels. Can you look at them and see if they're worth keeping?" "Get rid of both of them. Here's why." I deleted both of them right away. I said, "Hey, my newsletter's on Kit and one's on Beehiiv. Can you go look at it?" "I love doing it, but it takes too much time. What could I be doing differently?" My newsletter for next Tuesday is already done. I have never had it finished before Monday before. So, these... these new tools, they use your tools for you, you know? And it proactively gives you ideas. It said, "Chris, you've got a ton of webinar recordings in your Google Drive that you could easily turn into social media videos. Would you like me to go do that on a couple of them?" I'm like, "Yeah, I love that idea." So, this thing, Open Call, was a... was a watershed moment, but it's too geeky, okay? And I understand if a realtor can do something or not, because I'm not, you know, I'm not a coder, not a developer. And so, Open Call, you had to, like, go buy a Mac Mini and you have to run it through the terminal, which is like the old... colon, do you remember? Microsoft DOS, like C:\ and it just goes over everybody's head, but everybody loves it. So, the... these new tools, like Victor, are the power of what you're seeing people do there, which is go to work. Like, you need to think of it like what if you had 10 tabs open every morning and the first thing you did is you told Claude for Chrome to do these 10 tasks, and then you work on your day, and then before you log off for the day you say, "Hey, Victor, tomorrow morning I don't want to have to come up with ideas for content. Can you just send me a list? Check the internet tonight and let me know what's trending overnight." "Sure, Chris. It'll be in your inbox at 7:00 a.m." So, it... it is a revolutionary moment. And unfortunately, most people are not using this stuff to nearly the degree that they could be. Um, they're using it for pretty much basic stuff. Let me give one free tool everybody can use immediately, though, no matter what their AI level, because a lot of what I just said did this not to you, but to people: promptcowboy.ai. Okay? Promptcowboy.ai. It's a very simple tool. Instead of going to AI, instead of going to Gemini, instead of going to Claude, instead of going to... right, you go to promptcowboy.ai, and you pretend you're prompting. Say, "Hey, I need to write a description for a listing." Go. All it does: it takes your basic prompt and it rewrites it as a perfect prompt.
Glennda Baker: Oh... oh, my stars and stripes!
Chris Smith: And it's really, really good. So, you know how, like, I know you know Jason Pantana, like when you hear about people, it's like what's the situation and what's the goal and what's the tone and what's the output and what... like what's the buyer persona? Nobody can remember that every time they do a prompt. So, Prompt Cowboy, just say, "Hey, uh, I... I want it to write an email to one of my favorite clients. I haven't talked to him in three years. Can you help me?" And then it'll be like, boom. And then literally from there, you click "Open in ChatGPT," "Open in Claude."
Glennda Baker: Oh, my god, one of my favorite.
Chris Smith: Yeah, it's really good.
Glennda Baker: That's so awesome. So... so, Chris, I'm going to ask you a question: so you know a lot about me, you know a lot about my content. Where do you think the holes or gaps are?
Chris Smith: Well, I... I haven't consumed your new stuff that you're doing with Estate Media, so I want to make it clear that I don't want to misspeak and say long-form is your gap, but that's what comes to mind, is that long-form is your gap. But let... I'm going to give you exactly what you should do, take it with... what you may: you are a star. People know you. Yeah, the lady didn't know about your social media, but most people do. So what I'd like you to do is I would like you to have a videographer go with you to your listing appointments and be a fly on the wall and capture it Netflix reality show style. And I... I want you to start a web series that looks like it should be on HGTV, Netflix, cuz you can do it with the quality of those shows without needing a contract from those networks. You need to create a reality show that is you doing your job. Not touring, speaking, you know, not coaching, not podcasting. Like, I want to go in the living room with Glennda and I want to see what those conversations are like. And it's a little awkward, obviously, and you have to preface it, but it's very simple: "Hey, we're doing a documentary. They're following me to my appointments today. Do you mind if we put this little mic on? They'll stay out of the way." And then you just do what you normally would do. Do it at showings. Do it at listing appointments. And I think it would be gold. And I... I saw this with Grant Cardone. Grant Cardone did a reality show called Whatever It Takes. Nobody's ever seen it probably, but if you go to YouTube and put Grant Cardone Whatever It Takes, he was tired of not being a star. He was big on social, but he wasn't famous, right? So he does Whatever It Takes. He did his own reality show. He brought in all these salespeople. He... it was kind of like The Apprentice: "Go who can get the most money in the next hour," like... but he filmed it as if it was going to be on Discovery Channel. And next thing you know, he's doing Undercover Billionaire. Next thing you know, he has an actual reality show. So, I... I think that you need to do your own reality show.
Glennda Baker: I love it, I love it. I am so glad I asked that question, because you know, I... I gotta tell you, and it's um... I... I don't know that you know how much admiration I have for you. I think you are probably one of the most brilliant people I have ever met in my life, the way that you have the ability to not only come up with the idea, but execute on it and implement it, and then deliver it in such a, uh, user-friendly demeanor. You are the reason that I take action. And I will tell you, if, ladies and gentlemen, if you take anything away from this episode of Glennda's Guru, I want you to listen to it over and over and over and over again, because you will hear something once and it will... it will... you'll... it'll miss the mark, and then you'll listen again and you'll say, "Oh, my stars and stripes, I can implement this into my business today." Chris Smith is absolutely one of the most brilliant minds in our industry, and he breaks it down for you so you can implement it in your business today. So, I will tell you, Chris, this has been one of my favorite Glennda's Gurus, not just because I love you to death and I think that you are amazing, but because you pour in... you... you always speak from a heart of abundance and gratitude, and who can you help? And I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Chris Smith: Thank you. It's really an honor to be on with you, and anytime you need me, I'm here to help.
Glennda Baker: Well, you know I will hunt you down like a hound dog. And, Chris, where can my audience find you if they are looking, uh, to follow you or looking, uh, to do business with you? Where can they find you, and what's the best way to connect with you?
Chris Smith: Yeah, so my email newsletter, thechrislist.com, every Tuesday at 2:00. I never miss a week. Instagram and Twitter, @chris_smt-no, Smith-and then Known Local and Build Your Beacon. Those are my two businesses. If they want to check those out, probably put them in the show notes so they can take a look. But, yeah, it's a lot of fun. Beacon is a 7-day free trial, so anyone can try it and put a listing in and send it to a seller and let them tell you how great it is and then decide if you want to keep it. And then Known Local is not for everyone, you know? Um, it's an agency. It's not inexpensive. It's not... not expensive, but not inexpensive. And it's just... it's right for the right people. Like, the... you know, you didn't need us on the YouTube side, but you needed us on the email side. So, yeah, I'd love people to support my business, but even if they don't, just follow me on social, say hello, and let me know that you found me because of Glennda.
Glennda Baker: I love it, Chris. Thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Glennda Baker. I am a real estate agent in Atlanta, Georgia. And today, I had the opportunity to sit down with my good friend Chris Smith. And I will tell you right now, this episode has so many nuggets in it. It has so many treasures. And you are going to want to listen to it over and over again. And as I always say, send me a text, tag me in a post, give me a call. That's what I love the most, because I'd love the opportunity to talk real estate with you today. See ya!`